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Roger Barris's avatar

I have to admit that, after listening to a couple of incredibly simplistic and moronic comments from the students, I couldn't bear listening to the entire *debate.*

However, if you should find yourself debating this topic in the future, Bryan, you should ask your opponents if they think that, absent societal and economic constraints, they could shoot 3 pointers as well as Steph Curry, or play tennis as well as Carlos Alcaraz, etc. If they are honest enough to say "no," then you should ask them why they are willing to admit that, in the field of sports, individual merit and ability (and effort, tenacity, etc.) are important, why then do they think these factors are irrelevant in other spheres of life? If they are dishonest enough to say "yes," then I just recommend a deep eye roll.

Hopefully you also raised the issue of "zero sum thinking," which is really the background fallacy to people thinking that this is a very important question. The reality is that we all benefit tremendously from competence and merit. In fact, the amount of the benefit is probably directly and exponentially proportional to the distance between the competent and the incompetent.

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Dx's avatar
Nov 13Edited

One small point. I think it could help in debates like this to ask people to clarify their positions.

For example, a panelist said "meritocracy is a myth" and Bryan objected by saying that it would obviously be worse to assign people randomly to jobs. The panelist then gave the CV experiments as evidence for her claim. And Bryan replied by saying that biases can be justified as heuristics.

Bryan and the panelist were clearly talking past each other here. Bryan took her to mean something like "any degree of meritocracy is bad", while she probably meant "our society isn't 100% meritocratic", given that she cited the CV studies. Of course she's right about this, but then 100% meritocracy is obviously an unreasonably high bar. And of course it's unreasonable to try to express that with the phrase "meritocracy is a myth". But the point is that it would really help to try to get people to clarify what exactly they mean when they throw around phrases like that.

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