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Max More's avatar

Any approach to the foundations of libertarian principles that makes good use of commonly accepted moral ideas is sensible and promising. However, I have some issues with Huemer’s comments as quoted by Caplan.

First, he talks about Rand’s view as being that the right action for anyone in any circumstance is always the most selfish action. It should at the very least be noted that what Rand means by “selfish” is quite different from how just about everyone else uses the term. She is talking about rational self-interest, not the blind pursuit of goals based on unexamined feelings. I do not think Rand’s foundation for libertarianism work (and have not thought that for over 45 years) but her view is not such a pushover.

Nozick’s Anarchy, State, and Utopia is a brilliant and fascinating book but, I agree, he does not even attempt to provide a justification for the rights he posits.

Jan Narveson’s approach builds on work by David Gauthier. This does seem to me to a more promising approach, requiring no strange or implausible metaphysical foundations. It basically comes down to saying that rational people who seriously consider social interactions would agree to rules that look very much libertarianism. That seems right to me. However, it is an abstruse approach that few will find compelling. (Even though it is vastly more plausible that Rawls’ approach.)

Heumer says “I reject egoism, since I believe that individuals have substantial obligations to take into account the interests of others.” I have not (yet) read his books but I wonder where he thinks these obligations come from. For me, obligations arise from choices we make and agreements we make. I don’t see any basis for obligations outside choices and agreements. At the same time, as someone who favors virtue ethics rather than consequentialism or deontology, I see some “obligations” arising from relationships that we did not choose (such as family). These are not really obligations but opportunities to develop and display virtuous behavior.

I would make a distinction between justified legal and political rules on one hand and moral justification on the other. Laws against theft are entirely justified. And yet someone might be morally justified in stealing in certain circumstances (even where coercion is not present). I do NOT see this as an exception to the legal/rights principle. Sometimes behavior is justified even if it really does violate rights. This does not mean anything goes. If I were to find myself in such a situation (e.g. starvation imminent) I would be motivated to compensate for the rights violation.

Having made these points I do find Heumer’s common sense morality approach very reasonable.

It is unfortunate that Heumer’s The Problem of Political Philosphy costs $80 (Kindle) or $89 (paperback). I would like to read it.

Nutrition Capsule's avatar

If such libertarian principles are implemented in policy and followed to their logical, extreme real world conclusions, are we guaranteed to preserve the core ideas of those principles which laid out said policy in the first place?

A blunt example:

1) Extreme libertarian open market conditions are created, minimizing regulation and political checks and balances. State power (democratic or authoritarian) to influence market is eliminated.

2) Systemic differences between individuals or their conditions, or biases in market equilibria lead to some agents (orgs or people) accruing extreme amounts of wealth and power.

3) Said agents then use their power for aggression, to coerce others, or to create political authority to their advantage.

2 is reality so can hardly be argued, 3 is something that should be expected to happen as soon as the possibility exists, if such behavior is incentivized (as it often is).

So based just on the quoted parts, I reject the notion that the only way to disagree is by disagreeing with the author's premises. I can disagree due to the possible consequences of suggested policy (I do not actually have a strong opinion on the matter).

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