“If the U.S. had Emirati immigration policies, Americans across the political spectrum would acclimate with aplomb.”
What are the odds of the US ever getting to Emirati immigration policy, including no birthright citizenship for children of legal immigrants? I figure 0%, so why even bring it up?
What are the odds of the ever being a liberal market democracy? Shouldn’t we just keep wallowing in impoverished misery?
—
Plus, we had much better immigration policies in the past. It’s basically been done before and worked great. The idea that better political policy is so inconceivable that we can’t advocate for it is silly.
Oh yes, we should definitely work and strive in the hope that 1000 years from now, we can achieve the paradise of (checks notes) having two castes, hereditary citizens and hereditary non-citizens.
There are periods of time it absolutely would be silly to spend time discussing creating a liberal market democracy rather than aiming for more proximate goals.
Are we going to pretend it was equally viable in 800AD and 1776?
There is no political benefit to stirring up passengers about the inequality, whereas many politicians are delighted to use "inequality" in a variety of guises to agitate the populace for their personal political advantage.
We really do have an unbelievably cruel immigration policy here in America. Pay a criminal trafficking operation 20k to risk your life and limb for the chance to scrub toilets for a few years until a different administration tosses you out. Hopefully that the recent thermostatic reaction to immigration policy can be leveraged into a sensible guest worker program.
Why are we talking about cruise ships when we have contemporary presidential candidates running on a "free sex change operations for illegal immigrants in prison" platform. yes that happened 18 months ago
Saying that she ran on that platform implied that that was a change she wanted to make. What she said when she was running was that she thought that the law ALREADY mandated free sex change operations for illegal immigrants in prison and that she intended to follow the law as it was written.
That might sound ridiculous at first, but remember that Congress and the courts often pass/interpret laws without checking to see how they interact with other laws. If there is one law mandating that prisoners be provided health care and another law defining sex change operations as a form of "health care", those laws will combine to form a result that is ludicrous, but legally correct.
It seems like all anti-immigration conservatives should support Harris' view since they spend a lot of time talking about how illegal immigrants broke the law and we should depory them because we need to always enforce the law even when we don't like it. But it seems like they only care about the law when it says they can deport illegals. If it says they have to do something nice for them, not only do we not have to follow the law, it is shameful that a presidential candidate says that she intends to follow the law.
Fair clarification re: the positive vs normative nature of her claim. For the point about the political feasibility of Caplan's "limited rights" immigration proposal, the positive claim is worse.
But unfortunately rather predictable. Most people only care about injustice, freedom, equal rights etc. only when they are at the receiving end of it. The reason we have decent societies is because of a minority of people standing up for their principles.
This is not against UAE's immigration policy though, which in many ways is more humane, and less hypocritical, than the West's.
I am perhaps anticipated by Julie Kahan and Joseph Meier in remarking that the Emirati non-citizens get no birthright citizenship for their children or even more remote progeny: the Constitution of the United States forbids this.
Dude you couldn’t even make Prop 187 stick in California.
Apartheid worked great until it didn’t.
How long does the UAE last once it puts down its first general strike? When 90% of its population starts gunning for basic rights? Are they going to start jailing their Nelson mandela’s? Are they going to mow down protestors in the street?
They could just deport anyone causing issues, they are never going to gwant rights as it would get them deported. People start pushing for more rights only when they have permanence
In theory the apartheid regime could have deported anyone who caused trouble too. The tsar used to send people off to Siberia. Lenin was hiding out in Switzerland.
There is a factor you are not considering: Children. Perhaps americans could tolerate people voluntarily coming to work as serfs, but i highly doubt that they could tolerate that the serfs children were not given education or healtcare, like in the Emirates.
Caplan apparently didn't see the guest worker housing in Dubai. I have (although just from the outside), and it falls a bit short of the emigrants' near-paradise that he fantasizes about. He also does my properly address the reality that emigrants can almost never become citizens and have the rights of citizens - nor could their children or grandchildren.
Is there much good to be said about Dubai's openness to foreign labor? Absolutely.
But Caplan would be more persuasive if he were not so overtly and obviously putting his thumb on the scale by blithely ignoring the darker aspects.
It always amazed me how rudely many Americans treat waiters and waitresses - as though they are just part of the furniture. The USA floats on sea of under appreciated Latin labour.
“If the U.S. had Emirati immigration policies, Americans across the political spectrum would acclimate with aplomb.”
What are the odds of the US ever getting to Emirati immigration policy, including no birthright citizenship for children of legal immigrants? I figure 0%, so why even bring it up?
(1000 years ago)
What are the odds of the ever being a liberal market democracy? Shouldn’t we just keep wallowing in impoverished misery?
—
Plus, we had much better immigration policies in the past. It’s basically been done before and worked great. The idea that better political policy is so inconceivable that we can’t advocate for it is silly.
Oh yes, we should definitely work and strive in the hope that 1000 years from now, we can achieve the paradise of (checks notes) having two castes, hereditary citizens and hereditary non-citizens.
There are periods of time it absolutely would be silly to spend time discussing creating a liberal market democracy rather than aiming for more proximate goals.
Are we going to pretend it was equally viable in 800AD and 1776?
There is no political benefit to stirring up passengers about the inequality, whereas many politicians are delighted to use "inequality" in a variety of guises to agitate the populace for their personal political advantage.
You’re not an immigrant in Dubai, you’re a guest worker with no birthright citizenship.
And no welfare to sustain you at citizens' expense.
What the UAE offers should be called a flexible and sophisticated visa system. It is not an immigration system in a meaningful sense.
fabulous and non obvious comparison.
We really do have an unbelievably cruel immigration policy here in America. Pay a criminal trafficking operation 20k to risk your life and limb for the chance to scrub toilets for a few years until a different administration tosses you out. Hopefully that the recent thermostatic reaction to immigration policy can be leveraged into a sensible guest worker program.
Why are we talking about cruise ships when we have contemporary presidential candidates running on a "free sex change operations for illegal immigrants in prison" platform. yes that happened 18 months ago
Saying that she ran on that platform implied that that was a change she wanted to make. What she said when she was running was that she thought that the law ALREADY mandated free sex change operations for illegal immigrants in prison and that she intended to follow the law as it was written.
That might sound ridiculous at first, but remember that Congress and the courts often pass/interpret laws without checking to see how they interact with other laws. If there is one law mandating that prisoners be provided health care and another law defining sex change operations as a form of "health care", those laws will combine to form a result that is ludicrous, but legally correct.
It seems like all anti-immigration conservatives should support Harris' view since they spend a lot of time talking about how illegal immigrants broke the law and we should depory them because we need to always enforce the law even when we don't like it. But it seems like they only care about the law when it says they can deport illegals. If it says they have to do something nice for them, not only do we not have to follow the law, it is shameful that a presidential candidate says that she intends to follow the law.
Fair clarification re: the positive vs normative nature of her claim. For the point about the political feasibility of Caplan's "limited rights" immigration proposal, the positive claim is worse.
Good point with the cruise ship!
But unfortunately rather predictable. Most people only care about injustice, freedom, equal rights etc. only when they are at the receiving end of it. The reason we have decent societies is because of a minority of people standing up for their principles.
This is not against UAE's immigration policy though, which in many ways is more humane, and less hypocritical, than the West's.
I am perhaps anticipated by Julie Kahan and Joseph Meier in remarking that the Emirati non-citizens get no birthright citizenship for their children or even more remote progeny: the Constitution of the United States forbids this.
Dude you couldn’t even make Prop 187 stick in California.
Apartheid worked great until it didn’t.
How long does the UAE last once it puts down its first general strike? When 90% of its population starts gunning for basic rights? Are they going to start jailing their Nelson mandela’s? Are they going to mow down protestors in the street?
They could just deport anyone causing issues, they are never going to gwant rights as it would get them deported. People start pushing for more rights only when they have permanence
In theory the apartheid regime could have deported anyone who caused trouble too. The tsar used to send people off to Siberia. Lenin was hiding out in Switzerland.
>How long does the UAE last once it puts down its first general strike?
It's been around for decades and there haven't been any general strikes. Maybe your model of the world is flawed.
Apartheid lasted a lot longer.
The UAE hasn’t been what it is until quite recently.
People, huh? The stupid bastards just won't see what is so obvious to professors the world around...
There is a factor you are not considering: Children. Perhaps americans could tolerate people voluntarily coming to work as serfs, but i highly doubt that they could tolerate that the serfs children were not given education or healtcare, like in the Emirates.
Caplan apparently didn't see the guest worker housing in Dubai. I have (although just from the outside), and it falls a bit short of the emigrants' near-paradise that he fantasizes about. He also does my properly address the reality that emigrants can almost never become citizens and have the rights of citizens - nor could their children or grandchildren.
Is there much good to be said about Dubai's openness to foreign labor? Absolutely.
But Caplan would be more persuasive if he were not so overtly and obviously putting his thumb on the scale by blithely ignoring the darker aspects.
It always amazed me how rudely many Americans treat waiters and waitresses - as though they are just part of the furniture. The USA floats on sea of under appreciated Latin labour.
You have this exactly wrong. Ask anyone who has worked tables in both Europe and the US. American waitstaff is treated better by guests.
Neither of the above?
Bro an yearn for the day peasant waiters and waitresses are replaced with a screen I order off the food arrives. They are already do it in Asia.