I usually challenge people to put their ideas into practice. If you support carbon caps, shrink your CO2 footprint. If you believe in white privilege surrender some of yours. If you believe in USAID humanitarian programs then donate to foreign aid. If you support BLM then avoiding calling the police.
To these people I would say: if depopulation is an urgent and worthy goals then you can pursue them now, today. You first buddy.
Better if none of us had been born into this vale of tears and we should discourage any more. But depopulation is best achieved through reduced breeding, not by nasty deaths. I, and an increasing number of people, are doing our part by not reproducing.
Yikes. I'm sorry you feel that way about your own life, Mike, and I say that with no irony or sarcasm. I think life is wonderful and the world is wonderful, and I'm sorry that you don't.
That is a common misunderstanding of the principles of antinatalism. It’s not driven by life’s sufferings or weighing the pleasures of life against them. Humanity is just too aware the nature of life and its endless, pointless cycles of birth and death. Better for an eternity of nothingness - that anyway comes before and after our brief existences.
Well, James, by your own logic, if any additional person is indeed a great good, one should have as many children as possible, and not having one more is denying someone a chance at a wonderful life. So, I must ask you: how many wonderful lives have you denied by not acting on your urges? Let yourself go, man. : )
Lol. I didn't say that any additional person is a great good... and if you read my writing I think you'll find that's not my attitude. Also, if men letting themselves go and satisfying their urges were enough to bring new lives into this world this planet would have a population of 41 trillion.
I don’t think danger is a factor when you’re trying to kill yourself, nor do I think that OTC barbituates (which have mostly been phased out in medicine by benzos) at this point are a requirement for suicide. Everyone in this country has access to pain-free and relatively NOT gruesome means of suicide.
I don’t LET someone kill themselves? I let everyone kill themselves. I’ve never stopped anyone. Keep in mind-I’m not saying people should kill themselves. I’m saying that if people believe that there are far too many people on the population right now they should be ethically consistent. But I don’t believe that. I think we need MORE people, especially in the West.
Most people are actually not really finding life good. If I talk to most people in my area, and not just successful high IQ people, they tend to say stuff like "life has been very rough for me, but at least I'll live forever in bliss in heaven". I do agree the tendency over the centuries has been for life to get better though.
Good for you to call this out. I've heard hefty amounts of this anti-humanism from folks across the political spectrum. Once the numbers rise to certain thresholds, well, what's Stalin's line about tragedy vs statistics?
It's me. I'm the misanthrope. Your characterization that my view is "all else equal, the existence of one more person isn’t very good." is ... not wrong, but very misleading. Because all else is _NEVER_ equal. It matters WHICH person, with what characteristics, is being added, to which subgroup. Some marginal humans are, in fact, negative value. Average and median is positive in most current situations, no argument there.
I usually challenge people to put their ideas into practice. If you support carbon caps, shrink your CO2 footprint. If you believe in white privilege surrender some of yours. If you believe in USAID humanitarian programs then donate to foreign aid. If you support BLM then avoiding calling the police.
To these people I would say: if depopulation is an urgent and worthy goals then you can pursue them now, today. You first buddy.
https://jmpolemic.substack.com/p/people-suck
Better if none of us had been born into this vale of tears and we should discourage any more. But depopulation is best achieved through reduced breeding, not by nasty deaths. I, and an increasing number of people, are doing our part by not reproducing.
Yikes. I'm sorry you feel that way about your own life, Mike, and I say that with no irony or sarcasm. I think life is wonderful and the world is wonderful, and I'm sorry that you don't.
That is a common misunderstanding of the principles of antinatalism. It’s not driven by life’s sufferings or weighing the pleasures of life against them. Humanity is just too aware the nature of life and its endless, pointless cycles of birth and death. Better for an eternity of nothingness - that anyway comes before and after our brief existences.
Hmmm. I guess I don't get it. I don't see it as pointless.
Well, James, by your own logic, if any additional person is indeed a great good, one should have as many children as possible, and not having one more is denying someone a chance at a wonderful life. So, I must ask you: how many wonderful lives have you denied by not acting on your urges? Let yourself go, man. : )
Lol. I didn't say that any additional person is a great good... and if you read my writing I think you'll find that's not my attitude. Also, if men letting themselves go and satisfying their urges were enough to bring new lives into this world this planet would have a population of 41 trillion.
I don’t think danger is a factor when you’re trying to kill yourself, nor do I think that OTC barbituates (which have mostly been phased out in medicine by benzos) at this point are a requirement for suicide. Everyone in this country has access to pain-free and relatively NOT gruesome means of suicide.
I don’t LET someone kill themselves? I let everyone kill themselves. I’ve never stopped anyone. Keep in mind-I’m not saying people should kill themselves. I’m saying that if people believe that there are far too many people on the population right now they should be ethically consistent. But I don’t believe that. I think we need MORE people, especially in the West.
I’m not so sure these ideas do have broad appeal. I’ve only ever heard them from so-called intellectuals. And even then, only from a minority.
Most people are actually not really finding life good. If I talk to most people in my area, and not just successful high IQ people, they tend to say stuff like "life has been very rough for me, but at least I'll live forever in bliss in heaven". I do agree the tendency over the centuries has been for life to get better though.
Good for you to call this out. I've heard hefty amounts of this anti-humanism from folks across the political spectrum. Once the numbers rise to certain thresholds, well, what's Stalin's line about tragedy vs statistics?
It's me. I'm the misanthrope. Your characterization that my view is "all else equal, the existence of one more person isn’t very good." is ... not wrong, but very misleading. Because all else is _NEVER_ equal. It matters WHICH person, with what characteristics, is being added, to which subgroup. Some marginal humans are, in fact, negative value. Average and median is positive in most current situations, no argument there.