The Benefits of Nationalism

Guest post from an anonymous reader

An anonymous Bet On It reader has some thoughtful commentary on my Roni Fouks podcast. Enjoy!

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Hello Professor Caplan,

I listened to your discussion with Roni Fouks and I felt like something was left unresolved in your closing conversation about nationalism. I'm libertarian, but while listening to you two speak I thought I saw Roni's case for nationalism. I'd like to play devil's advocate if you're interested.

The main takeaway of nationalism is that a nationalist treats (or at least portrays) outsiders at least a little bit worse than common decency would prescribe, "My nation, right or wrong" being a clear example. The alternative would just be common decency.

But is it possible for nationalism to instead treat insiders better than common decency would prescribe? In this case, "better" alone means without unfair treatment of outsiders. Taking the example you provided in the discussion: parents treat their kids better than common decency would prescribe (for strangers' kids). You also described how parents, unlike nationalists, typically do sense when it would be wrong to favor their own child in sports games or support their child "right or wrong" following an accusation of bullying. Wouldn't it be possible for a parent-like nationalist to behave the same way (i.e. that a stranger would provide for other citizens like family without unjust favoritism)? I believe you addressed this in your blog before.

But, going one step further, wouldn't it be a good thing to actively encourage parent-like nationalism? Surely it would be better to have effective altruists instead of these "national altruists," but if the more realistic alternative is no organized charity movement at all, it seems like the right kind of nationalism would be a net positive.

I think this is the argument Roni was making based on how she introduced the topic. The voluntary charity that Israelis are providing for one another following October 7th is a kind of parent-like nationalism. Outcomes would be worse if an individualistic Israel would not have so generously volunteered for one another (ignoring the draft), instead adhering to the lower standard of common decency for one another.

In your blog post titled "Patria, Parenti, Amici," you wrote:

But you need coercion to make people surrender more than a pittance to their “fellow citizens.”  To ask people to stop favoring their own children goes utterly against human nature.  To ask people to stop favoring their countrymen is a modest, eminently do-able request.

While the use of conscription in Israel bolsters your argument, it does seem like a significant amount of nationalist charity has been voluntary. Is that a sign that parent-like nationalism isn't so different from parental favoritism? If parent-like nationalism is "voluntary" as a result of brainwashing, would that fact at least recognize the potential for a good kind of nationalist brainwashing if done right? (I know, not very libertarian).

I think your attempt to use Palestine and the neighboring Arab states as the case against nationalism didn't land because Roni believes a significant amount of Muslim Arabs are driven by an irrational (albeit human) xenophobia inflamed by religion, as opposed to any kind of "rational" devotion to nationhood. Regardless of whether that's an accurate description or a convenient one compared to nationalism, my gut says that encouraging parent-like nationalism would be wrong. Below are the arguments I can think of:

• Parents can play fair but nationalists empirically have not, so parent-like nationalism is not a realistic goal and would likely devolve into regular, bad nationalism.

• Neither parents nor parent-like nationalists can ever be perfectly fair, but the mistakes of the latter are so damaging that the comparatively minor benefits aren't worth pursuing.

My gut is not very satisfied with these since they don't seem like they should necessarily always hold. Maybe my gut is wrong and I should simply remain wary of nationalism, employing skepticism instead of refutation whenever I encounter someone in favor of nationalism, like Roni. Do you have any thoughts?

Thank you for maintaining a great blog and sharing your ideas,

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