No immigrants are not ordinary people because they are immigrants. The life story of an immigrant is not the average or median life story for a person anywhere in the world, much less often the story of someone from a western and liberal society.
This isn’t as witty of a “gotcha” las it may have originally been perceived.
Most people are not immigrants, but most people are not plumbers, or basketball fans, or residents of Slovakia. But a plumber, or a Bball fan, or a Slovak can still be an ordinary person; so can an immigrant.
This is a very weak point, to be the extent of being self defeating. "Ordinary people" is a poorly defined term in both cases, far too poorly defined to carry any weight, yet here are both disputants trying to hang an argument on it. I am afraid, Bryan, that you get the shorter end of the stick, as most people understand ordinary as "working middle class people that live around here" or something like "the middle 80% of the distribution of people in the country". Immigrants are not ordinary in either case, outside of possibly some very immigrant heavy parts of cities.
I do think that for most people, immigrants aren't people. They are more like an idea, like some sort of film monster. People have this idea of immigrants coming over and committing crimes, living off benefits and yet also taking everyone's jobs, refusing to integrate with our culture, meddling in our politics and generally damaging society. Yet when you mention an actual person that they know who is an immigrant, they think for a minute and realise that, yes that person is an immigrant, and then fall back to saying that they are 'the exception'. That's just my experience though.
A fundamental reason that the burger flipper knows nothing of the plights of poor foreigners in the US comes down to language. When you can't talk comfortably to someone, you can't learn about their situations and challenges. And said foreigners, due to language limitations, tend strongly to isolate themselves within communities of fellow foreigners, where at least they can talk to each other.
I have now lived in Ecuador for over 14 years, and speak Spanish almost fluently. I have talked to Ecuadorians who lived in the US for ten years or more, but who never learned English. How? They lived in communities where everyone speaks Spanish, and where there are a few people who are sufficiently bilingual to help when they need to interface with the outside world.
And learning a second language as an adult is not an easy or rapid process, as I can testify.
No immigrants are not ordinary people because they are immigrants. The life story of an immigrant is not the average or median life story for a person anywhere in the world, much less often the story of someone from a western and liberal society.
This isn’t as witty of a “gotcha” las it may have originally been perceived.
Most people are not immigrants, but most people are not plumbers, or basketball fans, or residents of Slovakia. But a plumber, or a Bball fan, or a Slovak can still be an ordinary person; so can an immigrant.
This is a very weak point, to be the extent of being self defeating. "Ordinary people" is a poorly defined term in both cases, far too poorly defined to carry any weight, yet here are both disputants trying to hang an argument on it. I am afraid, Bryan, that you get the shorter end of the stick, as most people understand ordinary as "working middle class people that live around here" or something like "the middle 80% of the distribution of people in the country". Immigrants are not ordinary in either case, outside of possibly some very immigrant heavy parts of cities.
Define "ordinary" in terms of......what?
I do think that for most people, immigrants aren't people. They are more like an idea, like some sort of film monster. People have this idea of immigrants coming over and committing crimes, living off benefits and yet also taking everyone's jobs, refusing to integrate with our culture, meddling in our politics and generally damaging society. Yet when you mention an actual person that they know who is an immigrant, they think for a minute and realise that, yes that person is an immigrant, and then fall back to saying that they are 'the exception'. That's just my experience though.
A fundamental reason that the burger flipper knows nothing of the plights of poor foreigners in the US comes down to language. When you can't talk comfortably to someone, you can't learn about their situations and challenges. And said foreigners, due to language limitations, tend strongly to isolate themselves within communities of fellow foreigners, where at least they can talk to each other.
I have now lived in Ecuador for over 14 years, and speak Spanish almost fluently. I have talked to Ecuadorians who lived in the US for ten years or more, but who never learned English. How? They lived in communities where everyone speaks Spanish, and where there are a few people who are sufficiently bilingual to help when they need to interface with the outside world.
And learning a second language as an adult is not an easy or rapid process, as I can testify.
Gonna be a chore to get that stink off, Bryan. Your act needs cleaned up, tout de suite.